I want to replace my Hughes & Kettner midi controller FSM-432 MK3 by a Morningstar MC8. I’m wondering if someone do it with success and if so, do you find any limitation with the MC8 (exemple with Tap tempo). Bottom line, I want minimally to be able to do with my Hughes and Kettner Grandmeister 40 the same thing I could do with the FSM-432 with the MC8. Why I want to do it, because MC8 have less foot print, extended possibility, by able to engage or remove the Boost or Noise gate with the same controller and be able to link my other gear.
I don’t replaced it but ‘cloned’ it : my MC8 totally drives presets and any midi accessible item in the H&K amps (inside are Boost and Noise gate), but I kept the FSM-432 as a facility. another reason to keep it is that the FSM432 is exchanging special sysex with the amp which are useful when using the associated software to manage presets, keeping the FSM in the midi loop allows the software to read the sysex and updates its screen accordingly.
I even manage 2 amps with the same MC8, midi chained: GD40 and BS200 for stereo effect. Easy to setup in MC8 with the H&K midi documentation.
Thanks, very useful and good idea to clone it!
What I miss understand is :
- When you talk about « Software to manage preset » you talk about the Hughes & Kettner App (through WMI-1) or the MC8 software ? If it’s H&K App, you connect to it with the WMI-1?
- If you need both, FSM and MC8 on your pedalboard?
- If you continue using the FSM Footswitch when you play (exemple Tap Tempo)? If so, witch one and how you used the FSM, in Preset or Stompbox mode?
I connect it using midi for GD40, using my audio interface midi from the PC where runs the app, for BS200 it’s native BT and corresponding app.
I don’t need but as I have space…
Preset mode, I rarely use H&K internal effects but external ones I manage by midi in sync with the amp preset, so I never use the FSM tap tempo, but it shoud work.
To be frank I use other gears to route/map/duplicate midi, mainly IConnectivity MIOXx, so I play with various routings schemas to jump between play mode and manage mode when I want to modify some parameter of my amps presets.
But MC8 midi controller alone can manage the H&K amps, it’s essentially sending PCs and sometime CCs.
Thanks a lot for all these info!
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Hello Everyone,
I already received my Morningstar MC8 Controler and I progess in my way to replace the FSM432-MKIII controler. But still stuck with some issue. A lot of exprerimentation at the same time, the MC8, Midi programmation and Wired less Midi 
.
My setup, I have a simple but a bit tricky one. MC8 (Channel 2) set to “Midi through” & “Cross Midi through”. At the H&K Grandmeister (Omni Off, Channel 1) a Widi Jack (1) at the H&K Midi In and Midi Out linked to the Pedal Board wired lessly by an other Widi Jack (2). At the pedal board, The Widi Jack (out) go on the Midi In of the FSM432 | The FSM432 Midi Out go to MC8 Midi In | The MC8 Midi Out go to Widi Jack (2) In. You should understand that the Widi Jack 2 is plug one end at the begining of the midi chain and the out at the end. To complete the setup, I have 1 Expression pedal on MC8 External controler 1 but not yet assigned (see picture below). My Issue is I got a midi loop, when I used the FSM432. first noting happen (no presset change), the H&K start blinking because receiving a lot of midi information. When FSM is off, nothing happen. If archived on point 2, I will remove the FSM432 then this will be a big deal, because its still the main objectif of these topic removing it. At the question, why keeping the FSM432 on the pedal board, because I have in head that I could monitor the midi message send when I used it and implemented it in the MC8.
I chose to use Bank 1 on the MC8 as a Home Page and conjonction with bank jump. Got the Idea from the video Song and Set Lists - Morningstar MIDI Controller, when Press on “control A” the “bank jump” go to “bank 4”, when “Double Press” go back to “Home page - Bank 1”, this work find.
On bank 4, I tried to reproduce the FSM432 fonction. I tried to use one bank only to manage the internal preset memory of the H&K. To do so, I assign “Control E,F” for bank down (E) and bank up (F) of the memory of the H&K preset. I used the method on the video Scroll through Presets on ANY pedal with MIDI - PC Number Scroll (Neunaber Illumine example) “PC Number Scroll” with “Decreased and send” with a appropriate Counter on “E” and the “Increased and send” for “F”, both sent on channel 1 with Wrap-around on Yes. I try to have “Control A,B,C,D” are set to reproduce the ABCD of the FSM432 on each bank. But the use of “Program change 0, 1, 2, 3”, repectively for “A,B,C,D”. The problem is :
- For “E and F”, I due to the “Send” the change bank they change preset too without waiting for tha A,B,C,D press.
- For the A,B,C,D, I got always the preset 0,1,2,3 of the first bank of the H&K internal preset memory.
Could you let me know, what I’m doing wrong or what is the midi command I’m better to used?
Thanks in advance
Next step in my conversion :
- Find a way to make the preset blink when On and blink off when turn it off or when I changed a preset.
- May be find a way to reassigned “Control A,B,C,D” with a new PC value when I press “Control E,F” to bank Up or Down.
I don’t use Widi but cables, but I suggest you rework it as this
MC8 out to FSM in (and just send PC, no need for bank change)
FSM out to Widi (2) in
Widi (1) out to H&K in
H&K out to Widi (1) in
Widi (2) out not needed
Thanks, when I do the rewiring I better understand your proposal and that why I remove my previous answer. If I understand, you propose a oneway drive from the MC8 Out that sent through the FSM to the H&K In. Because the MC8 in is empty, I think I don’t need the H&K Out to go to the Widi Jack In too. What I miss understand is if I loss something when the signal don’t coming back in the MC8 ?
Nothing, MC8 is not interested (interesting) in H&K output, H&K output are simply used by management softwares as the GrandMeister v 2.5.2 to sync their output.
Unless merging it with the MC8 midi output using some midi merge tool, you could not connect H&K output to FSM in because MC8 output has a greater priority here.
Keeping the FSM in the midi loop was simply for me a facility as I am not in a process of small pedalboard, my pedalbord being some continent of midi controllers/routers/filters/mappers, switches, usb hubs and exp pedals not conceived in an aesthetic process 
In complement of Morningstar controllers, the usage of IConnectivity and Bome Network boxes has been a great game changer for this.
Thanks a lot for your time.
Hello everyone, I did it! I find a way to replace my FSM432-MK III by my MC8 with the used of one bank only with all the control on the FSM with addition. With the help of @CSurieux and other recherches on the web I find the solution. First of all, I find that using Widi connection with cable connection at the same time on iPad create interference (midi loop). This is explain on H&K web site at the bottom blog of « 128-ways-midi-will-change-your-life-as-a-live-guitarist ». It’s the way the Grandmeister is build, to be able to work with external Apps, this cause this problem.
Then my news set up:
In this way, both, the iPad on H&K Apps work by the wifi via the WMI-1 and keep updated as midi command sent by the MC8, this is Cool! I could used a computer or the iPad for Morningstar MC8 edition and monitor with the H&K App what happen on the Amp. But no Bluetooth connection to the WIDI device at this point (may be I will improved this later).
To build the FSM432 on the MC08, I make a Bank set like this :
Bank Down (E) and Up (F) - Used to fix the 2 counter numbers :
Counter 0 (Range 1 to 32) start on 1 used for Bank number
Counter 1 (Range 0 to 127) start on 0 used for preset number
Controller E (B1 label = B%E1 vDOWN) : Set with :
- Msg01 : Press/PC Number Scroll/Pos:Both on Decrease Only with Counter 0
- Msg02, 03, 04, 05 : Press/PC Number Scroll/Pos:Both on Decrease Only with Counter 1
- Msg06 : Long Press Scroll/PC Number Scroll/Pos:Both on Decrease Only with Counter 0
- Msg07, 08, 09, 10 : Long Press Scroll/PC Number Scroll/Pos:Both on Decrease Only with Counter 1
Controller F (label = BANK UP^) : Same as previous controller E, but with PC Number Scroll on Increase Only
What going on : Touching nothing your are on Bank 1 (counter 0 start at 1), display as « B1 », when you press « F » the MC8 increase Counter 1 from 0 (start point) to 4 due to Msg02,03,04,05. Similarly if you are on Bank B1 and press bank down on E, counter 0 go to 32 and counter 1 go to 124.
To engage preset (A, B, C, D) - Used to reproduce Ch1, Ch2, Ch3, Ch4 on the FSM432 and for each « %E1 » to monitor the PC Number from counter 1 :
Controller A (label = CH1/A %E1) : Set with Toggle mode On, Preset blink On :
- Msg01 : Press/PC Number Scroll/Pos:1 on Sent Only with Counter 1
- Msg02 : On Disengage/Toggle Preset/Pos:2 (To stop Blinking when press a new preset)
Controller B (label = CH2/B %E1) : Set with Toggle mode On, Preset blink On :
- Msg01 : Press/PC Number Scroll/Pos:1 on Increase and Sent with Counter 1
- Msg02 : On Dissengage/PC Number Scroll/Pos:2 on decrease only with Counter 1
- Msg03 : On Disengage/Toggle Preset/Pos:2 (To stop Blinking when press a new preset)
Controller C (label = CH3/C %E1) : Set with Toggle mode On, Preset blink On :
- Msg01 : Press/PC Number Scroll/Pos:1 on Increase Only with Counter 1
- Msg02 : Press/PC Number Scroll/Pos:1 on Increase and Sent with Counter 1
- Msg03 : On Dissengage/PC Number Scroll/Pos:2 on decrease only with Counter 1
- Msg04 : On Dissengage/PC Number Scroll/Pos:2 on decrease only with Counter 1
- Msg05 : On Disengage/Toggle Preset/Pos:2 (To stop Blinking when press a new preset)
Controller D (label = CH4/D %E1) : Set with Toggle mode On, Preset blink On :
- Msg01 : Press/PC Number Scroll/Pos:1 on Increase Only with Counter 1
- Msg02 : Press/PC Number Scroll/Pos:1 on Increase Only with Counter 1
- Msg03 : Press/PC Number Scroll/Pos:1 on Increase and Sent with Counter 1
- Msg04 : On Dissengage/PC Number Scroll/Pos:2 on decrease only with Counter 1
- Msg05 : On Dissengage/PC Number Scroll/Pos:2 on decrease only with Counter 1
- Msg06 : On Dissengage/PC Number Scroll/Pos:2 on decrease only with Counter 1
- Msg07 : On Disengage/Toggle Preset/Pos:2 (To stop Blinking when press a new preset)
What going on : For exemple, if you are on bank 2, counter 1=4, as previous exemple.
When Press A : H&K engage Preset 4 because Msg01 from A just sent PC value of counter 1 and nothing else. When after Press C, « On disengage » from A stop blinking A label, Msg 1 from C increase counter 1 from 4 to 5, Msg 2 increase from 5 to 6 and sent PC6 and H&K engage Preset 6. When Press A to be back on preset 4, the « On disengage » from C start with Msg03 and 04 to decrease from 6 to 5 to 4 and therefore A equal again Preset 4 when Msg01 from A Sent only PC value of counter 1 back to 4.
For Tap Tempo On the fly and Bank Specific (G) :
Controller G (label = TAP Tempo) : ???
What going on : Don’t already find the way to make it work, Any Idea? The function Msg01/Press/MIDI Clock Tap, is not working. Improve in progress.
For Boost (CC#64) and Noise gate (CC#63) On and Off (H) :
Controller H (label = BOOST/NG) : Set with Toggle mode On, Preset blink On :
- Msg01 : Press/Control Change/Pos:1/CC#64/CC Value 127 = BOOST On
- Msg02 : Press/Control Change/Pos:2/CC#64/CC Value 0 = BOOST Off
- Msg01 : DoubleTap/Control Change/Pos:1/CC#63/CC Value 127 = NoiseGate On
- Msg02 : DoubleTap/Control Change/Pos:2/CC#63/CC Value 0 = NoiseGate Off
- Msg07 : On Disengage/Toggle Preset/Pos:2 (To stop Blinking when press a new preset)
That is it! 
My objectif doing it on 1 bank is to save bank and when I look for a news song preset in the H&K Factory preset, I’m able to scroll everything now.
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Great documentation work.
Personnaly I abandonned the notion of banks for the H&K amps, keeping only a limited length version of the preset names.
I have specific menus by song and a general ‘Playing tools menu’ where I can jump from anywhere with a press and then jump to general tools for each instruments, the H&K couple being there.
In this menu I can do Next/Prev/Reset on 3 switches but I have also a ‘Send/No Send’ preset which toogles the Next/Prev presets, allowing to send or not the value set in the counter. This way I can increase counter without having the amps bumping through each successive preset.
For the Next/Prev, I have also a ‘normal/great step’ value (release/long press) which increases by 1 or 5 to be faster, this being associated with a repeat feature (on long press) which keeps moving the counter until I release the preset, allows to jump faster a distant preset.
Concerning the tap tempo pb, I remember having asked @james, years ago, how to send the necessary midi message to my H&K, but at that time there was no solution for my MC6 . And as I finally abandonned the idea of using the H&K internal effects, there was no more need to do this.
It appears that it was more easy than I was thinking at the time, H&K using midi CC 4 for this feature.
“Delay Time, 128 steps, 51 ms to 1360 ms”
So sending CC 4 based on another counter value should allow to fix H&K internal time.
At the time I was using the MC6 internal RT management, but due to limited features I moved all this out of MC6 and…moved to MC8 … then a second
RT management in MCx is now better but I am not sure there is a way to convert the internal bpm value to a midi CC with value calculated from the H&K linear rule (128 steps 51ms to 1360) ? So sync with Bpm is not easy.
The bank process is not friendly to build on one bank. I do it so to used only on bank on my MC8 to travel between the H&K factory preset. The big jump is an idea I will explore.
An as you say @CSurieux it’s not easy to sync the time with the corresponding CC value for the « Delay Time » on the H&K. I take time to continue finding a way to implement the delay time an sync it with the MC8 clock, but no success. I make the following spreadsheet with the corresponding ms time and BPM corresponding to the CC#4 values. I used the equation of BPM=60 000/ms to do so. I have made several try and error with the H&K iPad App to match, close as a possible, the BPM coming from the iPad Apps when I send a specific CC#4 value. For exemple, with CC#4 Value = 0, with 51ms as per H&K you are supposed to get 1176 BPM, but the H&K iPad App tell 1069. Therefore with my try and error I find that the range should be Value = 0 equal to time 56,13ms and the 127 is 1360ms, then one over two is as the manual. Then by linear interpolation between 56.13 and 1360ms with 0 to 127 interval you got the values in the table below for the BPM that match exacly what coming out the H&K App. It’s a beginning to help dealing with the time and remove the need to always used the App. The second one is like a Pocket car with the usual BPM.
The main problem to implement it is the unliean response of the BPM regarding to the corresponding CC#4 values. As shown on the graph below. Easier with the “ms” value that is linear with the CC#4 values, graph after.
After that, I try to explore the CC#36 explain by Fredo the owner of the H&K desktop app on an other forum. But I’m unable to find enough information and with MC8 when I send CC#36 with values from 0 to 127, tempo change to 70 for all values from 0 to 63 and to 69 from 64 to 127 on the iPad app. Then it work as a on/off information. I don’t know if someone could give more info about it.
With the news release on the MC8 making “analogue tap tempo” from Relay from Omniport, I will may be try to see if I could add a 1/4 jack wired to the Tap tempo button on my FSM-432 and sync it with the new Relay function to sync the time. But it’s a bit weird keeping this large pedal board only to send a CC values to an amp 
. May be someone could help too?
Haooo what a great documentation job, again.
Yes the new Relay raises some hopes.
What would have been nice is that H&K obey to an external clock, I don’t think so but must confess I have not tried.
I am using a chain of Source Audio effects (Nemesis delay and Ventris reverb) which follow external clock, placed in the H&K’s FX loop and it’s ok. They allow features not accessible on H&H’s rather rustic bpm tapping, managing repeats on clock/note divisions, etc. My main problem is my personnal agility to trigger this tempo in right time.
Thank you for your great reference documentation, this should deserve a dedicated blog article.
Thanks @CSurieux, I try hard to get it working, because I hope to don’t have to buy external pedal when the amp already have it, may be not as good as your pedals, but those effets fit my needs.
May be if I could get more info on time implementation on H&K, like on CC#36, I could go deeper in it.
@james After working on that, it’s appear that the only thing missing on the Morningstar arsenal for Delay, clock, time and Relay fonctions to manage time is a way to convert the time/clock into CC numbers. I’m always in solution mode and I thing one of these three could be explored and when done will made happy the H&K GM36, GM40 and Black Spirit 200 users :
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As for the Relay function that reproduce an « Analogue Tap tempo » by Omniport after each midi event to keep analogue pedal in time. A function that compute the CC value corresponding to the time (It’s linear for « ms » to CC value, as explain before) always sent on a fix « Control Change CC » could keep in time the H&K or other pedal waiting for a CC value for the delay time.
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Due to the linearity between the time in « ms » and the CC, may be the clock in « ms » could be used with a Wave generator to compute the corresponding CC value and be saved on a counter. By using this counter value with « CC value Scroll » on each preset we want, we could keep the H&K preset in « time » when engage.
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A specific « H&K Grandmeister and Black Spirit » implementation for the time as for other pedal (it’s the only thing need for these amps). With this implementation we could add a CC message after a program change command and got the preset in time or similarly to the « Relay function » and send out to the amp after each Midi events.
@james, I hope you could have the time to implement something for that or tell us a way for that to help H&K users with it. We could easily control everything with the MC8, but without the time we miss an important part.
Thanks in advance
Apparently BomeBox is able to count the clock ticks and compute the corresponding CC value then send it to your H&K channel for each new bpm detected… just a thought.
Thanks, I’m looking at it now 
Just post the question on their forum, I am sure SteveC will bring a solution.
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Thanks, I ask and I received an answer, from StevenC from Bome, a smart guy. They proposed to me an other brand, Blokas Midi hub, but both say « No way to do it for now with there products ». Hope Morningstar will be the first or someone find a way 
Well, I have not seen your question but the solution must be more difficult than I was thinking, now everybody will have this info. 