Question about toggle state across multlple presets

[Bernarada]

I have a bank with the 6 switches mapped to 6 software instruments hosted in the global rackspace of GigPerformer. I made that setup so that I’m able to freely play any of them individually or play any combination of them simultaneously.

So far, I managed to map them on the MC6 Pro so that, when I bypass each of them individually, it toggles an orange bar to let me know that the software instrument it’s mapped to is bypassed. But I can’t figure out how to program it to do the same thing with many of them (that is, bypass any number of them while leaving others active), without the toggle affecting the others.

At this point, when I bypass, say, A and B, it starts to toggle between the 2. But what I want to achieve is simply to have each of them show that it’s on or off independently of the others.

Is there a way to do that? To have each switch individually or separately toggle a colored bar (that tells me that the software instrument it’s mapped to is bypassed) without the toggle affecting any other ?

[GuitarWolf]

Hi,
you can find ‘clear preset toggles’ in bank settings. Should be set to ‘off’.
I think that should resolve your issue.

[Bernarada]

@GuitarWolf Well, great. That worked. Thanks.

That said, here’s a new issue. Since it worked, I created a second MC6 bank mapped to 6 more software instruments. When I switch between them, within the same bank, individually or combined, they all toggle as it should with their bypassed state reflected with an orange bar beneath them. The catch is that it only works within the same bank. The moment I try a combination using both banks, the mapping starts to change apparently randomly. So for instance, a preset that had a orange bar showing that it’s bypassed now behaves the opposite or inverted way, showing the bar when it’s active. So I lose the visual feedback of its state.

It seems that, in the same way that your solution isolated each switch so that I can play each software instrument individually or play any combination of them within a given bank, I now need a way to isolate the 2 banks so that any change in one doesn’t affect the other.

[GuitarWolf]

What messages do you send to toggle an instrument on/off? A screenshot of a preset would be helpful.

[Bernarada]

@GuitarWolf Here’s one. It’s one where I added a “bank down” message that takes me to the first bank, mapped to the 6 Helix Native presets for the guitar sounds. Another switch has a “bank up” message that takes me to the second software instruments bank. Apart from that, they’re all the same, with only the CC# being different.

I also include a screenshot of what that looks like on the GigPerformer side, though I don’t think there’s an issue there.

[GuitarWolf]

Judging by your screendhots you are using the same command to toggle an instrument on and off. That’s why the toggles on the MC aren’t in sync with the status of your instruments.
You could create a toggle group for each instrument to keep the presets on the MC in sync. That should solve the issue.

[Bernarada]

@GuitarWolf Create a toggle group for each instrument… I recall coming across someone having to do something like that when reading through posts here to find a solution. So I’ll try that and report. Thanks.

[Bernarada]

@GuitarWolf So, I created a toggle group for each instrument, but that didn’t solve the issue. But I’m becoming aware of a couple things…

First, by now an obvious issue is that if I use either a long press or a double tap to bank up and down between my my 2 instrument banks, given that they both register first as a press, it changes to the state of the switch/preset, i.e., it doesn’t remain in the state I want it to remain which is either active or bypassed.

A second thing is that if I use A & B and B & C to bank up or down, then it works. I can move from one bank to the other, combine instruments from the 2 banks without glitches.

Now, I don’t like banking up or down using 2 switches. I find that tricky. It’s often hit-and-miss. So I’m wondering whether there’s another way to move between my 2 banks, one that doesn’t involve changing the original state of a switch if it involves a switch—which I guess it has to. Any idea?

[GuitarWolf]

Just replace your ‘press’ actions with ‘release’. Release actions aren’t triggered by long press or double tap.
Btw in the screenshot both cc messages are set to position ‘both’.
Every time you press the switch the preset sends a value 0 and a value 127. Is that intentional?

[vatore3rd]

@GuitarWolf In the screenshot, the preset has “Toggle Mode On”. Won’t you also need to set “Toggle Mode Off” on the preset and add a preset Toggle action on Release? Otherwise, with “Toggle Mode On” on the preset, won’t the Long Press to switch banks result in the preset getting toggled?

[Bernarada]

@GuitarWolf OK. I changed the press action of all switches to release, which works. About the 0 and 127 values, I had set that on the basis of past experiments that pointed me in that direction. But now, while they’re still in the “both” position (should I use position one?), I deleted the 0 value and only left the 127 one, and it works as well. So far, so good, that simplifies things.

Back to the issue of switching banks in a way that doesn’t change the state of the switches which reflect whether the instruments are active or bypassed… Setting the message to Press to change banks, for instance, doesn’t solve the issue. Say I’m in the second bank with switch A reflecting whether a Bass is active or bypassed. I press the switch and as it releases it toggles between the two states. If I assign a bank change to it with a Press, it changes banks but as it releases it also toggles, which is what I don’t want. So that doesn’t work. Or I’m missing something—which is likely, given my still limited knowledge and experience.

[Bernarada]

@vatore3rd Say more? What is a “preset Toggle action on Release”? Where do I find and add that? Though I looked for it… And if that’s a solution.

[vatore3rd]

If a preset has “Toggle Mode On”, then every time you engage it – as is the case with BOTH your Release (instrument) and Long Press (bank change) actions – it will toggle the preset state between Pos 1/Pos 2.

Since you don’t want the bank change/Long Press to toggle the preset, you need to set “Toggle Mode Off” on the preset.

You then have to include a message to explicitly toggle the preset but only for the actions where it is wanted – like your Release action. So just include a Release/Toggle Preset message in your preset. Now, the preset will be toggled when you change the state of the instrument (Release) but it won’t be toggled when you switch banks (Long Press).

[GuitarWolf]

Good point!
To sum it up:
Don’t use ‘press’ at all. Use ‘release’ instead.
Don’t use toggle mode. Use a message with 'release/toggle preset/both
Put the ‘toggle preset’ message as last message of the preset, to avoid mis-triggers of subsequent release messages.

[Bernarada]

@GuitarWolf @vatore3rd Thank you both. A quick question before I start remapping. Do I leave the Toggle Group I assigned to each instrument?

[vatore3rd]

Yes, leave those in place.

[Bernarada]

@vatore3rd @GuitarWolf OK. We’re getting there. The 2 banks are now responding as I want them to. I tried all kinds of combination of instruments between the 2, switching them on and off, and it holds. Finally. Thanks to you two—and others who extended help on this adventure of mine.

Now, to the final piece of this puzzle… Apart from those 2 software instruments banks, I have a first bank with its 6 switches mappped, via GigPerformer although in a separate instance, to 6 Helix Native guitar presets.

I’d like to have something similar happening with them. That is, first, to toggle an orange bar under the one I select, that goes away when I switch to another one, that now is the one with an orange bar, and so on. I played around with different messages, but I couldn’t figure it out.

The second thing is similar to what happened with the other 2 banks. In this case, the issue is “banking up” without loosing the preset in Native that happens to be active. So say I have the Overdrive preset switched on with the B switch, and program a Long Press on the Clean preset on switch C. But if I Long Press that switch, it switches to that Clean preset, while I want it to stay on B as I move up a bank or two to the software instruments.

I tried the same setup that worked with bank 2 and 3 (with Toggle mode Off, creating a Toggle group for each, using Release instead of Press, and the Release and Toggle Preset). It works, but not quite. The last preset I choose in Native now sticks, but as the Long Press switches to the second bank, it messes with the states of a couple software instruments there. While the 6 should still be bypassed, which is the state I left them, two are now active. This happened a few times. So something is amiss.

I include a screenshot of the preset with the Bank Up message (CLEAN BK UP). All the others are the same, minus the bank up.

Also, switching those presets in Native is happening using PC messages, not CC. Maybe that plays a part? Or not.

[vatore3rd]

In this screenshot you are using a “Press” action to send the PC rather than a “Release” action. That would cause the Clean PC to be sent when you bank up with a Long Press. Make sure all the PC messages in these presets are using Release actions.

Also, if you want the 6 guitar PC presets to be mutually exclusive, i.e. only one is active at a time, then you should place all of those presets into a Toggle Reset Group rather than a Toggle Group.

[Bernarada]

@vatore3rd Great, that worked. Now I can move freely between the 3 banks, without any combination I make affecting the state of everything else.

That said, there’s still one thing that I brought up in my last post that isn’t addressed concerning the Helix Native presets bank, which is, as I wrote, " to toggle an orange bar under the one I select, that goes away when I switch to another one, that now is the one with an orange bar, and so on." I can hear what preset is on, but it would be useful to have that visual feedback (the way I have one in the software instruments banks). Is that possible?

Also, as I think of it, I placed each preset of this bank in a separate Toggle Reset Group. Is that what you meant or you meant to place them in the same group?

[vatore3rd]

They should be in the same Toggle Reset Group.