MC6 Pro/ML5-Programming Problem

[cgscotto]

I have an MC6 Pro, an ML5 for switching some pedals, an a Voodoo lab Control Switcher for switching amp channels.

My goal is to use presets A-F as presets controlling switching on the ML5 and Control Switcher. Presets G-I control amp switching while presets J-M control loops on the ML5. Loop C is set to always be on through a CC message at the bank level. I am using the ML5 to distribute the pedals pre/post using the amps FX loop.

I have set up presets G-M as toggle switches. and as toggle switches, they work perfectly. The remainder of the presets control functions on two HX-Ones and a Boss TAE. All of these toggles switches and counters were a breeze to set up.

I would like to program presets A-F to turn on presets G-M as needed and have the state of presets G-M change to reflect their on/off status. At first, I tired to do this by, let’s say, engaging presets G and K from within preset A using ENGAGE PRESET and SET TOGGLE from within preset A. While I could get it to work, the behavior of the ML5 buttons was erratic and I could not get preset K, for example, to be in the correct state, no matter how I tired to set POS 1 and POS2.

I finally gave up on that idea, and decided to use program change message with the ML5 and send CC messages directly to the Control Switcher, essentially bypassing all the programming I did for presets G-M. At least with this method, the program messages now correctly turn on the sequence of loops on the ML5, and the channel switching is correct.

However, now presets G-M no longer correctly display their state, so loop A on the ML5 may be on because I sent that as a PC message, but preset J, which is programmed as a toggle for Loop A on the ML5 will display OFF even though it is on. I tried to fix this with SET TOGGLE actions in the master preset, but the behavior is erratic. Of course, if I change pages to display presets G-M, their toggle functions work fine. But if Loop A on the ML5, for example, is one from a program change, the corresponding toggle preset will be off, which means I have to press it twice to turn off, once to make its state match the ML5 and a second time to turn it off.

I am attaching some screenshots if they help. Any help to end this frustrating loop would be appreciated.

[jason.nguyen]

I suspect what is happening is that the order that you set the toggle and remotely call the other preset is affecting which message is firing.

I think there is some simplifying that might be possible for you, which will also make it easier to troubleshoot. It looks like A - F are mutually exclusive? Like whenever you push A, all the others are disengaged? In that case, I would set Toggle Mode ON for A - F, and add them all to the same “Toggle Reset Group.” Now, when one is pressed, the others are toggled off automatically, so you don’t need those cosmetic messages.

Otherwise, what you’re describing should work in theory, and I’ve done something similar myself with an ML10X without problem, so we should be able to figure it out.

[cgscotto]

Thanks a bunch. I think this almost fixes everything. I set preset A-F to TOGGLE MODE ON and assigned the presets to TOGGLE RESET GROUP 1. I removed the extra commands toggling the preset. I used the SET TOGGLE message to set the toggle states of all the switches relevant to the preset. I also changed the action to release instead of press for a reason I will explain below.

When I now engage presets A-F, other presets in the group turn off, the correct buttons I programmed on the ML5 appear, and the toggle state of presets G-M appear. So it all appears to work as I wanted it to work. I uploaded three screenshots of presets A, B and D.

The one odd behavior has to do with the correct program being sent to the ML5. This is why I changed the action to release, but it still seems to happen occasionally. Say program 1 turns on Loop D and it is assigned to preset A; program 2 turns on Loops B and D and it is assigned to preset B; and program 4 turns all the Loops off except for C and it is assigned to preset D. Sometimes, maybe I am pressing the switch too fast or something else, when I move from preset D to A, preset A seems to send the program change assigned to preset B, so Loops B and D come on instead of just D. A second press of preset A corrects the problem, but now it seems to also switch preset A back to position 1, so you can’t tell that it is active. Like I said this problem happens occasionally.

One last thing, the Long Press to activate preset J, which turns on Loop A on the ML5 with the tonex pedal, no longer seems to work.

I really appreciate the help. I like the MC6 Pro quite a bit, and I think it is very powerful for its size.

[jason.nguyen]

Are the loops not engaging in the ML5 itself, or are your presets representing the loops in the MC6 not engaging? Just looking at the way you have it programmed right now, it’s possible that the order of the “on disengage” message on the preset you’re “leaving” is happening out of order with the toggles being set on the preset you’re “entering.” I’d modify your current messages this way:

1. Set the PC for the ML5 and the CC for the Voodoo Lab switcher back to Press. I think you also have some for the HX One in there. They can all go back to Press.

2. Instead of trying to set your ML5 Loops (J K L M) when you push and unset when you disengage, just clear and set all of them when you engage like so:
   

   
   
   Note that they can go back to Press too. By removing the disengage messages, the MC6 just does everything in order under one preset without juggling the disengaging of one preset and the engaging of another, which should help the logic.

3. You have another set of disengage messages attached to the control switcher. I’m not exactly sure what you’re doing with those, so I can’t advise, but if it’s not messing with anything leave it alone. If it IS messing up somehow, try making them all triggered by Press on the newly engaged switch, not by the disengage of the previous switch

[cgscotto]

I just want to say again, thanks for the help. Your customer support is outstanding.

I think we are 90-95% of making this setup work. The problem I was having and having a bit is not whether the loops in the ML5 are engaging. The problem is that sometimes the wrong loops engage, as if the wrong PC is being sent to the ML5. So, if PC 2 turns on loops B and D, and PC 3 turns on loop E, sometimes when I recall the preset that sends PC 2, the loop for PC 3 turns on or the loops for PC2 and PC 3 all turn on. During testing, I have the MC6 Pro on my desk, and I am recalling presets by pressing a button with my finger. I notice this happens most if I press the button to quickly. Should increase or reduce the sensitivity of the buttons? By the way, they are currently set to the default of 3. Which way increases the sensitivity, moving towards 1 or 5?

I modified what you demonstrated in you did in your last post by having the SET TOGGLE with DISENGAGE TOGGLE set for presets G-M (G-I are the linked to the control switcher and J-M are the ML5). Following your model, I moved these two actions to messages 1 and 2. This all works very well. If the PCs don’t get mixed up, all the presets toggle to their correct state to reflect exactly what the state of the control switcher and ML5, which is what I wanted to achieve.

So, if the occasional PC mixup did not happen, all would be perfect. Below are screenshots of three of the presets A, B, and D.

Thanks again.

By the way, this is my second MC6 Pro. I have a digital “ampless” pedalboard where everything is controlled by the MC6 Pro. I think the way you are helping me achieve my goal this rig will have me reworking the presets on the pedalboard rig. I think this is much more elegant than what I started with.

[cgscotto]

I solved the problem. Instead of sending PC messages to the ML5, I am triggering loops with CC messages. To make sure the loops I want on turn on and the loops I want off turn off, I am sending CC messages to all loops in every preset. While this is more work than simply sending one PC message, it ensures that none of the “cross-talk” between PC changes happens. I am similarly sending CC messages in every preset to the Control Switcher. Also, the Set Toggle states work perfectly in every preset, their state matches the information being sent to the ML5 and the Control Switcher.

Coupled with all your prior suggestions, this is exactly the result I wanted. Moreover, it works every time with no odd switching.

Here are, again, some screenshots:

Thanks again.

[jason.nguyen]

I’m so glad this worked out for you. I was busy over the weekend, but I was just coming to suggest sending individual CC messages, so I’m glad you figured that out already!

[cgscotto]

No problem. Your support has been great, and I would not have found this solution without it. I am really happy with the setup now and happy to have such a small controller that is this powerful. I think the programming is very elegant now, so much so that I am going to reprogram my other MC6 Pro on my digital pedalboard using the same techniques. Thanks again.