MC6 Pro & ML10X together. What's the best workflow? New user needs some advice!

[markpaterson]

I’m a new owner of a MC6 Pro and ML10X. I’m really enjoying using both. But I really need some guidance from someone who’s been using MIDI controllers for years.

While I understand generally how they both work, I’d like some tips or advice on how to best use them together. This is my first experience with a MIDI controller, so I just want to make sure I’m not missing something obvious in my workflow.

I have a mix of MIDI and non MIDI pedals. I’m not a gigging musician - if I was, then I would simply program a set of presets and be done with it. Instead, I’m looking for a workflow that is more suited to spontaneous experimentation with new sounds.

So far i’ve figured out two different workflows…

1 - INCREMENTAL ALIGNED PRESET MODE
Maybe this is how everybody does it? Or maybe this is the stupidest thing you’ve ever read? LOL. I really have no idea because it’s something that people don’t really talk about. I’ve watched a ton of videos on MIDI controllers but they all just demonstrate how to recall a preset and then leave you to figure out a workflow.

So I came up a system that works for me. It allows me to experiment with different sounds and quickly save them. However, I’m not sure this is the best method as it seems a little wasteful.

I’ve created a preset on the MC6-Pro named “01 - Clean” (the number is important here as you will see…). It contains separate Press commands for all seven MIDI pedals, and asks each pedal to load preset “01”. It also loads preset “01” of the ML10X which is pre-configured to be basically a bypass of all the loops.

My next preset is called “02 - Overdrive”, which loads preset “02” on my MIDI pedals and preset “02” on the ML10X which just has my Timmy overdrive engaged. I think you get where I’m going with this.

I’ve continued this approach, incrementing the numbers as I go (hence the name), and associating each prefix number to the presets of each pedal. It means that if i’m on preset “10 - High Gain Monster” then I know that it’s loading preset 10 on everything. This helps me keep track of things in my head without writing things down. I don’t need to worry that preset 10 on the MC6 Pro recalls preset 56 on the Flint and preset 19 on the Iridium, etc. That sounds like a world of hell. I really don’t want to worry about managing the presets on each device, I just want to defer everything to the MC6 Pro.

Obviously, when I create a new preset on the MC6 Pro, I first I need to reset all the MIDI pedals to be in bypass mode, because of course they are all randomly activated for that same preset number, with factory preset values. So I activate preset save mode on each pedal and then assign it to the active MC6-Pro preset using the footswitch. This gives me a clean slate to start making (and easily saving) new sounds. The only non-spontanous part is that I kinda have to pre-program the ML10X to at least know what loops I want available too (which brings me on to the other method I’m using, more on that in a moment).

However, like I said, this method is a little wasteful. For example, if I don’t use my Strymon DIG on the MC6-Pro for presets 01 through 10, then this matching range of presets on the DIG is potentially wasted and unused.

Is there a better way? Please let me know!

2 - STOMP BOX MODE
I’ve set up a preset on my ML10X called STOMP BOX which has all my loops wired up but disengaged. Then in the MC6 Pro preset editor I created a bank specifically for this mode and selected the “ML10X” option to assign a loop to each footswitch.

This is great for experimenting and be spontaneous with the loops. I can quickly turn loops on and off, and can easily turn on and off MIDI pedals outside of the ML10X.

However, after I find a great sound, how do I easily save it like in my other mode above? For the MIDI pedals I think I would have to have an empty preset location on the MC6 Pro that is ready to go for such a scenario, which had an unused preset number for each MIDI pedal. But as for the loops, I think I would need to create a new preset on the ML10X containing the exact loop requirements.

I think perhaps the best method would be a blend of the two ideas. In my Incremental Preset mode, I like how I can quickly save any of the MIDI pedals to the MC6 Pro preset that i’m already in. However this doesn’t seem possible in the Stomp Box mode because the buttons are not working the same way - they are simply toggling loops on and off and are not in themselves a preset location.

Hoping that there’s a whole other method I’m totally blind to, that will make total sense when explained to me!

Thanks in advance. Happy to finally be here after resisting MIDI for SO long.

[jason.nguyen]

The ML10X has 4 banks and 128 presets per bank, so frankly, you can save a preset every time you came up with something and probably still have space left over. lol. That said, I get it, and I think all of us have to eventually arrive at a structure that makes sense for us.

For me, I use each ML10X preset as a rig skeleton, with every pedal routing somewhere. I use advanced mode a lot, so each of these can get quite complicated … delays running in parallel to reverbs, one path for the clean signal, another for a distorted signal, maybe another for a looped segment.

If there’s a “default” setting that I like, I’ll usually set that with a preset on the MC6 Pro containing 3 “press” messages:

1. Call the ML10X preset
2. set engage/bypass state for all ML10X loops
3. set toggle state for all switches corresponding to those loops’ “stomp box mode”

Those 3 messages are essentially a preset. Just as each of your presets calls a PC on your other pedals, you can call these 3 messages to “set” your ML10X and have it ready for “stomp box mode.”

As for whether it’s wasteful to align all of your pedals/devices so that preset 1 on all of them is the same … I think it’s a perfectly fine way to work. I don’t think you should worry about “wasting” anything, because for most of these devices, you have 128 presets … you can worry about wasted presets when you cross that bridge, right?

Personally, I don’t work that way, but that’s just because of the way I think. When I’m designing my presets for a delay pedal, for example, I’m likely to just end up with a handful that I really like and which are going to be the basis of a lot of sounds. No matter how the “rig” is structured overall, I’m most likely going to pick one of those 5-6 or so presets to start from.

[markpaterson]

@jason.nguyen

If there’s a “default” setting that I like, I’ll usually set that with a preset on the MC6 Pro containing 3 “press” messages:

1. Call the ML10X preset
2. set engage/bypass state for all ML10X loops
3. set toggle state for all switches corresponding to those loops’ “stomp box mode”

Those 3 messages are essentially a preset. Just as each of your presets calls a PC on your other pedals, you can call these 3 messages to “set” your ML10X and have it ready for “stomp box mode.”

If I read this right, this all is triggered by a single footswitch containing 3 press actions. How does this then become a stomp box mode where each loop is a separate footswitch? Or do you not use it that way?

@jason.nguyen

Personally, I don’t work that way, but that’s just because of the way I think. When I’m designing my presets for a delay pedal, for example, I’m likely to just end up with a handful that I really like and which are going to be the basis of a lot of sounds. No matter how the “rig” is structured overall, I’m most likely going to pick one of those 5-6 or so presets to start from.

This is a good approach. I can see the logic of just going through each pedal, figuring out like half a dozen great sounds and then making note of these presets for later recalling in a MC6 Pro preset. This of course is much simpler on more sophisticated pedals with screens and visible preset names and numbers. It’s a just a bit harder on say a typical Strymon pedal with 128 hidden presets. I would have to connect it to my computer and use their Nixie editor software to manage the presets and view them. So to avoid all that is why I came up with the idea of aligning all my preset numbers. I’m not 100% convinced by my idea, but for now it seems to work for me. I guess ultimately I will arrive at a point where I have a number of favorite presets across all pedals and I can start to whittle them down anyway.

I appreciate your input, thank you! It’s definitely food for thought.

[jason.nguyen]

Re: stompbox mode, I usually have a separate page dedicated to the stomps. That needs to be updated to match with the engage/bypass of the ML10X itself, so the 3rd command there is meant to set the toggle state of that page. On the MC6 Pro, if I’m treating a bank as the controls for a “set,” for example, I might have page 1 select between a bunch of “scenes” (ml10x routings + pedal presets), page 2 for performance elements (e.g. ramping feedback on a delay, swapping between presets on a specific pedal, looper commands, etc.), and page 3-4 might be stomps for individual pedal engage/bypass.

As you get better at programming the device, you’ll find useful ways to overload your switches with additional functions. For example. I like making stomp switches where Long Press is the engage/bypass, making room for the “Message Scroll” function to scroll through a bunch of presets on Press (well, technically on release). Basic programming:

With the “preset rename” function, I find that this is the most effective way for me to document presets on devices where you can’t see the preset name using our controllers’ current features.

[markpaterson]

Very cool. I saw the “message scroll” option previously but assumed maybe it was something that just scrolled a message across the screens LOL. I couldn’t think how that would be useful so I ignored it .

I’ve just found this page in the manual which goes over the feature in great detail. Seems very useful. I can already think of ways to use this along with the preset rename function.

[markpaterson]

I figured out a new workflow which is pretty nice for experimenting and building layers of sounds, while also embracing presets on each individual MIDI pedal.

It’s based around the concept of a separate bank for each MIDI pedal. Inside each of the banks are presets for that pedal (and only that pedal). It starts with the half dozen suggested factory presets from the pedal instruction manual (Factory 01 to Factory 05 for example), and then as I go through the various pages there’s plenty of room for my own presets too (starting at User 06 to 24, AKA last preset of page 4). Same goes for the ML10X – I have a bank on the MC6 Pro just for the ML10X with a set of presets that recall various presets on the ML10X.

Here is the key trick: What I found is that a MIDI pedal will stay engaged even if I move to a different bank, so for example, I can be in the Strymon DIG bank with a delay sound, then move to the Strymon Flint bank and engage a reverb preset without disengaging the DIG delay! Very useful!

To make things a little easier to manage, I’ve dedicated a switch (top right of first page) to disengage the pedal if things sound a bit too crazy. It would be nice if I could just use the same preset button and toggle it off, but I found that once I move to a different bank and then return, the toggle state is reset to toggle position 1 so it appears that the preset is off (when the MIDI pedal itself is still on). I can retain the toggle state between pages using a Toggle Reset Group but it doesn’t look like that is honored across bank changes. Please somebody prove me wrong!

[GuitarWolf]

@markpaterson

. It would be nice if I could just use the same preset button and toggle it off, but I found that once I move to a different bank and then return, the toggle state is reset to toggle position 1 so it appears that the preset is off (when the MIDI pedal itself is still on). I can retain the toggle state between pages using a Toggle Reset Group but it doesn’t look like that is honored across bank changes. Please somebody prove me wrong!

Hi,
If you go to controller settings/general you can activate ‘remember toggle states’. Toggles won’t reset when changing banks.

[markpaterson]

@GuitarWolf

If you go to controller settings/general you can activate ‘remember toggle states’. Toggles won’t reset when changing banks.

Perfect! Thanks so much.

I now have this workflow working as desired! eg – I go to a bank for the first time and there’s no presets lit, I then press a preset to engage it and the background changes to white with black text. I can navigate to another bank and return and the preset remains lit. I can then press this preset again to bypass it. I did this with a Position 2 action sending the CC number for bypass.

[Roscius]

Keep in mind that you can have a midi pedal loop engaged but have set the pedal to Bypass.
Then have a bank or multiple banks dedicated to ‘Jam Modes’ where you get to make specific changes on the fly..
l like to always have Boost, Drive, Filter and Mods 1 or 2 clicks away… a Clear all is handy too
Having dedicated Modulation, Delay and Reverb banks is pretty useful.
All you need to do is assign some Presets that you then never overwrite.

[CashCowan]

I’ll chime in with a few things I think can help.

1. Everything can be repositioned by copy/paste and swap on the programming side. Due to this it can be helpful to label everything before you start programming commands. This can help get a framework together.
2. The looper primarily functions to allow non-midi pedals to sit within a preset, or to rearrange the order of the signal chain (midi pedals and non-midi pedals alike)….this is a simplified explanation of course.