Issues with bank command send in beta 3.7

Hi

I didn’t know where to leave feedback, so I’m doing it here. Please tell me if there’s a better place.

I installed beta 3.7.0 on my MC8 today. Having commands attached to enter and exit of banks is awesome! In general, this would allow for using your MCs more like the Line 6 Helix way, where Command Center can send PC/CC when entering a preset. With one little but …

Some pedals, like Chase Bliss, want to get a PC message when saving presets. CBA i.e. is holding both footswitches down and the first PC incoming afterwards determines the slot the preset gets saved to. An after two hours I couldn’t come up with a scenario in the MC8 that would work in a meaningful way to solve this.

My proposal would be to add a device command “engage bank”, which lets us call up a bank and engage the “enter commands” that are saved with it. Like this, we can engage the same bank we are already in, like “reload the bank” thus the “bank enter” PC commands would be resend. This can then be set to a preset not normally used like “S” or something.

I hope this is somehow understandable.

What do you think?

In addition: “Page enter/exit” commands would be the next logical step. :wink:

I haven’t used the new bank commands yet, but when I want to program presets in my CB Brothers I’ll do it from a standard preset. I’ll just set up the preset to send with the PC # I want to use, hold both footswitches, and then send to save my changes to that PC. Maybe you could use a temporary preset to do programming and then when done set your banks to send those commands instead.

That is of course a way to do it. But I think it is quite common for me and others to tweak something on location, like setting levels or dialing back a little treble/bass depending on the venue.

When doing that on 5/10/15 banks for the evening, I don‘t want to tinker with channel settings or even hookup a laptop - I just want to dial and save my preset.

Sorry @jmay214, I was a bit in a hurry when answering earlier.

So, I think there are different approaches when using MC with a pedalboard. I like to think about it like the Line 6 Helix line: A MC-bank (1-99) are HX-preset for me and I use the MC-presets (A-XYZ) like the stomp mode on HX where each footswitch turns on/off individual stomp(s) or sets parameters.

Thus, the bank enter/exit commands are so valuable to me. But, I’d indeed need separate switches that I have to change on occasion to save to specific locations/presets in my pedals. Where it would be more logical IMHO, to have each bank in MC represent a Midi-PC-number. So bank 12 would go with PC12 and all my pedals would get PC12 when entering the bank.

With that in mind, we’d need a “bank reload” to send the corresponding PC again that was sent out when entering it. And to stay in the MC-logic so far, a “bank engage” command would do the trick. And the best place to map it would be “hold bank-up” (C+D on MC8 stock) for me.

If done like this, it’d work like this:
– Bank 12 sends PC12 to my pedalboard on entering
– I set whatever parameter I like on my pedals
– I go to “save mode” on my pedal(s)
– I hold “bank up” on MC to “(re-)engage bank 12” and PC12 gets sent out again

I always stay inside the bank, I don’t have to tinker around on the MC. Clean and easy. And with 9 pedals on my current board that all save the same way, this would be a real life saver. Like for anyone with Walrus/Chase Bliss/Empress/… pedals that have the same workflow.

I hope this illustrates my point a little better.

alright, so of course when I’m away from the MC it comes to my mind: this should be achievable with “bank jump” and then set the bank to itself. Not elegant and still has to be adapted for every bank, but it might do the trick.

I figured you had a good reason for needing PC switching specifically on the bank change. in your case, having multiple pedal PC lined up with the same bank PC.
My PCs for my pedals are usually way off from lining up with the bank or I use a pedal’s preset in multiple banks.

I’ve been using a Selah Quartz to achieve the same thing this new command bank load feature does, but Morningstar adding these cool new features is always making me totally redo my workflow.

There‘s a board in the back of my head that would be more about each pedal at its best(s). That‘s where I would definitely go your way of controlling it. My big board right now is more of a practice/workhose-station, my „modular helix“ if you want. Each bank is centered around a song or sounds that belong together. And as most of my pedals do midi, it is super convenient to send a bunch of CCs on a preset rather than switching PCs. Each approach has strong pros/cons and that‘s the beauty of the beast: MC can do them all. Now or, someday anyway :stuck_out_tongue:

Alright, so I tested this as mentioned earlier:

Bank Jump to the same bank as active. And it doesn’t work to solve my problem. MC8 seems to sophisticated, it just stays where it is and doesn’t “enter” the same bank again. Which is great by itself, but I’d need a “reload” or “toggle” of the same bank so that my PC command to the pedals goes out again.

@James, could you maybe chime in here? Is it possible that you add a “bank reload” function, or add a switch to “reload/reenter bank” to the “bank jump” command?

The eason as mentioned in the first posts is that many pedals save like Chase Bliss does: entering a “save and listen for PC” mode. Having a function like described would let me send the PC commands that I have in “bank enter”, so the pedals know where to save the changes to.

Just so I understand correctly - what you want to achieve is to be able to send a PC message to the Chase Bliss while it is in “Save and listen” mode so you can save the PC number in Chase Bliss?

Instead of adding a new feature just for this (we need to rationalise every feature we add), if you are connected to the editor, you could actually just program up a PC message (no need to save) and just click the “Msg” button. It will then send just that particular message to the MIDI Controller, which will then forward it to your other devices. Would that work in this case?

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Thank you @james for asking back!

I have 9 pedals on my one board, that save the same way, by waiting on the next PC that comes along. If I’d do as you suggest, I’d need to add a preset to every bank for that and add every pedal/channel with a PC send to it. That’s a lot of work in my eyes - and this applies to every CBA pedal, as well as Source Audio, some Strymon, …

I guess reloading a bank and engaging the bank enter/exit commands can be even more useful. Maybe I made changes to some pedals and just want to go back to the saved state without going back and forth.

The function is already there in the web editor - Toggle Bank. Would it be hard to implement in the functions?

More thought on that:

It is really cumbersome to add up to 16 “send PC” commands and adapt the PC number in every bank. If a “reload bank” command is not on the table, these two additions would be useful in many more scenarios:

1) add “send Omni-Channel”
this eliminates the need to add up to 16 seperate commands. I guess that 16 messages is the maximum that can be sent at once, so this might be a toggle that occupies all these when activated and sends out the same PC/CC/SysEx on all channels.

2) “send active PC”
In my use case, this eliminates the need to edit the PC number when copy-pasting the command through banks. Might be useful for other kind of scenarios.

3) “paste to all banks”
Or “paste to banks number: 1,2,3,n”.
This script would eliminate the need to do multiple copy/paste steps. That this would be awesome in many scenarios seems pretty clear to me.

So, with all these, the effort for the use case here would go down from creating/editing 16 messages times 30 banks to 1 message and one script.

Maybe there’s something along this for you to consider, @james?

Sorry for my mess, @james! I had one more important thought while programming a few banks tonight:

A command to resend “enter bank” commands is definitely the way to go for one simple reason:
When the PC# in the pedals don’t match up the bank #!

Scenario:

  • MC8 Bank 3
  • Overdrive PC7
  • Delay PC78
  • Reverb PC19

I’d have to copy every single PC per Bank to a Preset switch, a simple “send bank PC” would not be suffice.

Nonetheless, I think the additions from my last post would make great additions. :slightly_smiling_face:

I really would like page toggle easier and someway that when I hit double press it doesn’t use press twice and instead actually executed double tap instead of two single presses

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Thanks for the suggestions. Sounds like allowing the bank to “Bank Jump” to the same bank and have all the Bank Preset events fire off will solve this issue. Is that right?

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Yes, I think it would.
Thanks for your patience here :grimacing:

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I’m wondering if when I sent a cc to turn a looper on(on the mc8)press then on release switch to my looping bank(that controls the microcosm looper)if it leaves looper mode on(and I’ve sent the cc to turn the microcosm looper on)

I’m trying to figure out why the looper light doesn’t light up when I send the cc to turn it on. I thought maybe the mc8 looper mode might mess it up that’s all I can think of.

You might get quicker help if you’d open up a separate thread for your issue.

Did you make sure, that channel, CC and value for the Microcosm are correct and that the connection is working properly? Can you toggle the Microcosm on/off when you only set one command on the preset?

If yes, are you sending additional commands to the Microcosm, maybe a PC? It might be that the Microcosm can’t recognize multiple commands fast enough, so you’d need to add a delay before the CC to turn it on.

Ok I’ll try this and make a new thread.