Hi there - ive had alot of success with the ml10x - however theres a section of the docs that has me a little confused I was hoping someone could help me understand :
my understanding of a feedback loop is the output of a device ends up back at the input - however the diagram here looks like a typical parallel connection to me unless im missing something? Sorry if this is very obvious, but ive been scratching my head about it!
I’m also a little confused by this. Forgive my misunderstanding but I thought that it was the existence of an audio source that gives a signal flow direction.
Before A Tip is bypassed in the example screenshot the Input source, A Tip source, and B Tip source give all signals a Left to Right directional flow.
When A Tip is bypassed, that source no longer is there in the top chain to create the direction, but there is still the flow from the Input source to the Output.
I don’t have an explanation for why the bottom signal would reverse the signal flow direction on the top from the Input to the Output to the Output to the Input.
Is it only if the bottom signal chain is higher gain than the original input source that the direction of signal would reverse to create the feedback loop?
So if B Tip loop was attached to an overdrive/boost or anything outputting above unity gain, it would be a stronger signal than the original Input source and therefore would be able to reverse the signal flow?
Does signal 2 have to be higher gain than signal 1 in order to reverse the original signal flow for the top chain and create the feedback loop?
Thanks.
also just read all the docs in the ML10x section and yeh, this description of feedback loops in two examples struck me as incorrect as well.
the examples of advanced mode bypassing of individual loops creating potential feedback loop problems don’t seem true. is there some specific way the ML10x operates that has this potential?
seems like a programming thing, as with the loop bypassing options in advanced mode. necessitating certain logic options being available to select when bypassing loops. in particular loops with >1 summed input or output… as per a certain other devices ‘smart insert’ capability.
The wiring is the diagram would look the same as if you have:
Input >> B Tip >> Output
and then you took a piece of wire and use it to physically touch the input and output of the Send and Return points for B Tip. There is then potential for the signal coming out of the output to flow back into the input, causing a feedback loop.
The points are all physically connected in the matrix switch IC.
I think what you’re thinking of is the pedal itself being bypassed. If you disengage A-Tip physically on your pedal (i.e. stepping on the bypass switch on your pedal), the Input Tip is still wired (in the matrix switch IC) to Send A Tip and Send B Tip, and the Output Tip is still wired to Return A Tip and Return B Tip. The flow of signals are protect by buffers in each of the ports.
Just to be clear, the connection looks like this:
Input Tip >> Send A Tip
Input Tip >> Send B Tip
Return A Tip >> Output Tip
Return B Tip >> Output Tip
This is different from bypassing it in the ML10X where the connection will look like this:
Input Tip >> Send A Tip
Return A Tip >> Output Tip
Input Tip >> Output Tip
thanks for the answer, I guess my 2 questions would be - how would one do a wet dry path through an effect set to 100 percent wet - as in how would i move the dry through the ml10x? Would this involve sending the dry to the top summing point and then the wet to the second summing point?
Second would be how to do the same thing - but not necessarily at the output section assuming the summing is the solution to my first question? Would i need to have a buffer present to ensure the direction of the signal?
Thanks very much for your time!
