Hello all and thanks for the time and effort you put into helping…please bear with me as I am brand new to midi.
I have an MC6 Pro.
The following, in order, is what I would like to do, what I’m currently doing, and the problems I’m still having.
What I would like to do.
Have a bank of delays (e.g. A - DOT8, B - 1/4, C - Tape, etc.) that can be added to whatever I’ve currently got going. e.g. I have Overdrive and vibrato on…go to this bank and add a dotted 8 effect. With a double press double the effect level and a long press to bring the effect level back to normal. Would both the on/off and effect level would need to be in toggle mode?
Because I can’t get Long Press, Double Tap, Long Press Release, Double Tap Release, etc. to not just toggle back and forth from Pos 1 and 2, what Ive done is setup A,B,C with delays and the upper row D,E,F with CCs…e.g. D= Toggle effect level from 75/127 to 95/127 • E= Toggle Feedback from 55/127 to 75/127, etc.
On to the problems…
My alternate presses never seem to not trigger a press. I’ve read over the pressing diagram…tried changing things to releases, etc. No luck. Is this because of toggle? What am I missing?
I can turn presets on and off. I can send CC changes, however, those changes only apply for the bank that is arbitrarily selected via the Up and Down arrows on the device. What is the method to send CC messages to a given bank? Example. The edit option via the DD-500 has been left to the A preset (on the DD-500). However, my I use CC#29 to turn on the B preset (on the DD-500). I then want to control the Effect Level for the B Preset (on the DD-500). I send a CC#18 (for effect level) w/ a CC value of 100…it sends it to A. How do I get it to send to B? I need to be able to tell which button A or B to send my CC#s.
Thanks so much!
P.S. I’m unsure if I should be disconnecting my MC6 Pro before testing…I do on occasion…thoughts?
Don’t use ‘toggle mode’. Any action will toggle the preset if it’s activated. There is a ‘message type’ called ‘toggle preset’. Use this instead combined with the ‘action type’ you want to toggle the preset with. If you want an action to always trigger regardless of the position the preset is on set ‘pos both’
You’ll have to assign the CC# on both presets A and B on the DD. Choose different CC# to be able to differentiate A and B, should be working then iirc.
Hey @GuitarWolf!
I truly appreciate the help. I was able to more or less knockout the first point thanks to your tip. (please see the screenshot). I’m still not sure I understand how to “combine” the action types and “toggle preset” …is it just anything that comes before the “toggle preset” is automatically “combined?”
As for the second point…this is perhaps a silly newbie question, but how do I assign a CC# on the DD-500? Are you saying I can assign CC#s that don’t yet exist?
In simul mode (where you can run both presets A&B) you activate A with CC#28 and B with CC#29 0-127. But that’s only for on or off. I need to be able to tell send a (example) CC#18 (effect level) to A, B, or Both.
Yes, for example ‘release’ + ‘toggle preset’ will toggle the preset. You can add ‘long press’ + ‘toggle preset’ or any other action type to the same preset if you like.
Yes, you can change the fixed CC# on a global level in the midi category. On top of that you can assign incoming CC# messages to any parameter of the DD on a preset level. Check out this manual p15 and p20: https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/DD-500_e02_W.pdf
Awesome @GuitarWolf, that’s great to know. Once again, thanks for the response.
As for point 2.
I think an important distinction is that I’d like to be able to send a CC message (effect level) to either A, B, or Both, regardless of what preset I’m on or what the the DD-500 tells me.
Let’s pretend that CC#94 controlled the effect level of DD-500 Preset A and CC#95 controlled the effect level of DD-500 Preset BB.
If that were the case, I could use a Release action with a CC message of 94 and value of 50 and 100 w/ a toggle preset to tell Preset A what effect level to be at. After that, I’d use a Double Tap action w/ a CC#95 and value of 50 and 100 w/ a toggle preset to tell Preset B what effect level to be at. I just can’t find if it is possible or not.
As per the manual…I really appreciate the tip…I’ve been through it, but I’m not sure it touches on what I’m after. It appears that those manual pages are dealing with Input Sensitivity “Adjusts the input sensitivity when INPUT is selected for SOURCE.” and hooking up to a DAW.
Hi,
I’m sorry it’s page 17 not page 20 for the global CC#
I’m not 100% sure but it should be working if you go to the menu, and choose ‘assigns’. Then you can set CC# as ‘source’ and ‘DLvl’ (dry) or ‘ELvl’ (effect) as ‘target’. If you do this for both presets with different CC# it should be working, but I might be wrong, it’s been a while since I used the DD in simul mode. Another option would be to send the corresponding PC# for the preset you want to control. The DD is organized in Banks with 3 presets each. Bank 1 Preset a would be PC 0 , Preset B would be PC 1 and Preset C would be PC 2. It doesn’t matter that you don’t have access to Preset C to find the right PC# you have to count it, too.
If you want to control both presets independendly you’ll have to set up two buttons on the MC, just using ‘toggle mode’ with two different action types won’t get you far because the toggle is shared by both
@GuitarWolf thanks for investing your time into a new midi user.
I’ve never used the Assign function before, as I previously only affiliated them with expression pedals. I gave it a shot, but somewhere between my lack of understanding and ability something went wrong.
It’s a bummer (in this case) that Assign is per patch…what I’m trying (and oh so close to achieving) would be more of a global thought.
I set Preset A ASGN1 SW: to On • SRC: CC#70 • Mode: Toggle • TRG: Effect Level • Min: 0 • Max: 120
It shows as sending the CC via the Morningstar editor midi monitor, but sadly, the preset on the DD-500 doesn’t change.
Perhaps I’m messing something up?
I’m still trying to wrap my head around toggle mode and the PC of Toggle Preset, but I think I get what you’re saying w/ needing to use 2 separate buttons, which I’m totally down for.
@GuitarWolf
That did it. You’re a midi master. Thank you.
I do wish there were a more A preset global and B preset global to prevent me from having to set the Assign of every single preset, but at least I know it is possible. If I find anymore out from Boss, I’ll be sure to update. In the meantime, thank you.
Update from BOSS:
“Thanks for the clarification on EFFECT LEVEL control, specifically for a preset in SIMUL Mode.
This can be tricky.
Unfortunately, the CC# is only controlling the physical knob position as apposed to a specific effect level in an Effect A or B.
We apologize for the inconvenience, We’ll check with BOSS Engineering for a possible workaround or something that can be addressed with a firmware update.
We appreciate your patience and cooperation.
At this time, you’re not able to control the EFFECT LEVEL of specific preset A or B while using A/B SIIMUL mode.”
This is an old thread, but I thought I’d chip in. I’ve attached a workaround for your issue, using SysEx messages instead of CC messages. The SysEx messages are for Patch A and Patch B parameters so perfect for simul mode. The attached preset will toggle between Effect level 50 and 100 on both patch A and Patch B simultaneously regardless of which DD 500 preset/patch you are on (i.e., global control). Though this is a simple preset, there are a lot of possible variations. Unfortunately, SysEx messages do take up a lot of message space. I have an MC 8, so I am limited to 16 messages, but I believe the MC 6 Pro allows more.
Here are some SysEx Messages for Patch A and Patch B:
@Asteroid
First off, thanks for replying to this thread. It’s awesome that you were able to find a solution. I’ve been looking forward to replying to you, but unable until now. I am brand new to Sysex and I have found a lack of helpful resources.
A couple of things…
I tried opening your preset_B_data (1).json in the setlist editor to mess around with it, however, it kept saying that it was the wrong file type. I even made sure I was trying w/ the MC 8. I was hoping to gain some insight to sysex and how it relates w/ Morningstar.
Would you mind taking a look at the attached screenshots to tell me if I’m on the right track? One is a breakdown of your sysex string and the other is how that might look once in the MC6PRO editor.
Once again, thank you so much for putting your time into this!
Hi. No problem. I gave up a few times before finally figuring it out, so I totally understand. I got a general idea through some online stuff about SysEX and Roland products, and then it was a lot of trial and error until the aha moment. I’m still learning and have no technical background, so please forgive any misinformation.
To answer your questions:
You say you used the setlist editor for the .json file. I’ve never actually used that editor, so I’m not sure if that is the issue. I’m using the regular web editor. I’m attaching a screenshot of the button to hit.
Of course, you may be worried about downloading a file from a complete stranger, and I totally get that. Nevertheless, if you’re not worried, this would be the easiest way to get up and running I think.
If you want to avoid the download, the next easiest thing would be to let the Morningstar editor build the SysEx message for you. Taking a quick look at your sample message, some of the message looks correct, but there are some differences, which I think would prevent your message from working. It looks to me like you tried to put the message together manually (so to speak), but you can get the editor to do this for you (and given that the original SysEx string is correct, the editor will create a functional message for you):
Steps
In Morningstar editor, Edit Preset click the 3 little buttons on the tool bar near the top of the page.
Give it a name and save it. Then go to your DD 500 Bank (patch) B and go into the Patch editor.
Scroll down to Effect Level and turn it to any value besides 100.
Hit your MC preset button and your DD500 bank patch B will switch to Effect Level 100. *You will see a Receiving Bulk Data message on your DD500 as you hit the switch. I think the action is immediate but the message flashes for a second or so (harmless I believe).
From here, you could start building and customizing your presets to any number of variations. Building the message further to toggle between settings on both patch A and B simulteanously requires some copying and pasting, and perhaps having to set up messages on different MC presets and then copying them over message by message to the desired preset. This is how I put together the original .json I shared. Once you understand how the message is generated, you’ll be able to copy and paste within a single preset (knowing which parameters to adjust like switching between Effect Level 50 and 100 - which you correctly pointed out as Amount in your parsing of the SysEx string).
As a side note, perhaps Morningstar will provide a way to blend presets someday. Maybe they already do, but I don’t know how to do it.
I think I’ve given you something to chew on for now. I’ll come back with an answer for question 2 (with my limited knowledge).
Apologies for the sloppy editing, but I’ve filled in the blanks here. It’s very understandable why you got stuck at this part, as I did too. The DD500 Midi Implementation chart is very confusing I think for anyone new to this:
F0 41 10 00 00 00 4D 12 - Opens the door (all messages to the DD 500 will begin with this as far as I know)
30 00 - Start Address - tells the DD500 where you want to send a message. In this case: BANK (Temporary)
Here are some different parameters to switch between DIRECT MUTE and STEREO OUT. I think some people like to mess with that. This is a SYSTEM Parameter:
@Asteroid
This is incredibly helpful and very comprehensible! Again, thank you for your efforts. I will likely break up my response into a couple of posts to keep it from being too lengthy.
I imported your preset. The first image is how it showed up in the editor for me. I’m guessing this is the difference in your Morningstar device and mine (MC6Pro). The second image is the template that was created based on the string that I copied in. It’s nice that they have it all in one message
Alright, @Asteroid - on to a question I’m hoping you may be able to field.
The following example are based on the effect level starting at 80% and then the sysex messages being 50% or 100%…
In the attached image and file, I am using a long press to go to 100% effect level and a double tap to go to 50% effect level. Currently, it is a global patch B message.
Let’s say I have my effect level at 80%. If I long press, it goes to 100% (120 → 0X78) and if I double tap, it goes to 50% (60 → 0X3C). Is there a way to get back to the starting 80%? So far, the only way that I’ve found is to leave the entire bank, switch patch B on and then off and then go back to the prior patch and turn it on again…that will get me back to 80% (where I started)
I could make another action (long double tap) and send something like (96 → 0X60). However, it can be difficult to get a long double tap to work when I also have a double tap and long press as actions, and, it’s more work to try to figure out what the right number between 0-120 it is to hit the starting point. Being able to get back to where the effect level started when initially entering the bank would be ideal. I know it’s stored somewhere in there, because, like I said, I can leave the back, switch the patch on and off and then reenter the bank and it will go back to the starting point.
I also understand that I could not send a global message, and rather, target the exact preset and patch, but this still wouldn’t address being able to get back to my original level without having to leave the bank and tap dance. I’m wondering if there is a momentary option where when you disengage and reengage, it will go back to where it started.
@Asteroid My other question is one of further sysex (specifically w/ Boss) understanding.
I thought I had it figured out from the great guide you’ve provided. However…
I was trying to send an effect level change based on PC. Therefore, what I thought I did was PC Midi Map along with the offset address. In my case, I was trying to send an effect level change to my very first preset. Bank #1 patch #1 (“A” switch)
I thought, based off of the following images from the Boss Midi manual, I should change P9 to 20, P10 to 0, P11 to 0. I tried every possible combo I could think of. Where did I go wrong? The Boss Midi Manual is very frustrating - the UX is not friendly at all. e.g. | 20 00 00 00 | MIDI PC MAP - no explanation as to where the numbers should go…I put them where I thought the should go…
No problem. I’m glad to be of help, and I’m also learning by trying to figure it out. I’ll take look at your following posts.
I think what you want to do is to have a kind of clear all or reset to preexisting state kind of command. I’m not sure how to do this, or even if it is possible, but I will look into it (hopefully someone else may offer a solution).
Nevertheless, I’ve created a preset similar to what you described. It’s not great I think - rather clumsy, but kind of a work around. It will not return your effect level to the original setting (unless that setting was 80%). Instead it will “Shift” it to 80%.
Press - 100%
Double tap - 50%
Long Press - 80% (The long press is actually a double shift and will show on your controller with two little triangles. Thus, you will at least know visually when you are at 80%)
My controller is set to high sensitivity for the button presses, so it was a bit tricky to get the timing. Lowering the sensitivity setting may make it smoother if you have it set too high.
I think others may have better solutions, but hopefully this works for now.
Here is a second option where you can see what your effect level is. This requires setting up the SysEx messages on different unused presets. Here I’ve used Presets Q,R, and S for the SysEx messages. You will have to set those up, but I can share the data if you’d like. I have shared the main preset (Preset N)
Just realized you don’t have to set up the SysEX messages on different presets after all, especially on the Pro. Here is a third option (a simpler way of achieving the second option). Still not exactly what you were looking for I think, but at least you can see what your effect level is.
I disengage all presets except for the ones that are currently operating as my A and B switch on the DD500
Command to turn on and off the switch (A in this example) followed by a Toggle Preset - this allows me to have obvious on and off colors without using toggle mode
Call up the particular patch on the DD500
Long Double Tap sysex for setting effect level to 50%
Long Press sysex for setting effect level to 105
Double Tap sysex for setting effect level to Original position
3 corresponding name changes based on the tap action
On disengage - preset rename to change to the original name of the setting.
I’m interested in exploring “Shift” state - I think that has some cool potential, but I’ve never used it before. I’m going to play around with your preset to see what I might be able to learn from it.
I’m also going to look into sysex some more and try to figure out how to address individual presets.
Attached is the preset, in case others are like me and learn better by seeing examples of how to create presets in the editor. preset_L_data.json (3.3 KB)
