[BETA] Engage/Bypass loops in Advanced Mode

Some progress related to bypassing and engaging loops in Advanced mode! If you do give it a go, let me know how it works for you.

Firmware

Please select the appropriate firmware for your controller. If it is the REV_B design, you’ll it see printed on the enclosure, and the USB port is orientated horizontally (REV B) instead of vertical (REV A).
2024-06-28_ML10X_Firmware_v_1_1_3_BETA.hex (521.7 KB)
2024-06-28_ML10X_REV_B_Firmware_v_1_1_3_BETA.hex (557.1 KB)

Overview

Consider this connection:

When A Tip is bypassed, the connection will look like this:

Pretty straightforward stuff. The complication arises when the signals split and merge.

Consider this slightly more complicated connection:

An A Tip bypass will look like this:

Another even more complicated scenario:

An A Tip bypass will look like this:

Basically, the prior loops will take on the connections to the outputs on A Tip. This may or may not work for your use-case.

Feedback Loops

Consider this scenario:

Now, if A Tip is bypassed, the connection will look like this:

You can see that there is a feedback loop which will introduce a whine/noise if your signal is on high gain:

Cut/Restore Outputs

If using the ML10X message type on our MC controllers, on top of ENGAGE and BYPASS of loops, you can also choose to CUT or RESTORE the output of the loops.

In the same scenario earlier, instead of bypassing A Tip, you can choose to cut the output on A Tip, which will give you a connection like this:

This will give you the ability to merge, or A/B certain pedals by breaking the merge connection.

MIDI Control

CC Messages

Engage and bypass of loops follows the same CC implementation for Simple Mode. For Cut and Restore of Loops:
CC#30 - CC#39 controls A Tip, A Ring, B Tip… ~ E Ring
Value 0 cuts the signal, 127 restore the signal, 64 toggles between cut and restore

Thanks @james — excellent to see progress in this area!
Will try to give it a go this weekend.

So cool, @james!! Thanks for the update. If this works, it will be VERY useful. I probably won’t fool with the beta, but I’m looking forward to hearing the results of those testing it!

Have you considered having the boxes just be grayed out rather than disappear altogether? Or does that somehow leave an inaccurate representation of the routing?

Super excited to test this out. I’ve been wanting this ability in just a few circumstances where I don’t think any of the downsides will occur, but because of my signal chain I’m always using advanced mode.

The reason why we cant just bypass loops physically in the ML10X is because the hardware does not allow for this. Hence, some software logic is needed to exclude the loop and reroute all the connections.

The hardware solution for this would be to add relays in each loop to control the engage/bypass for each loop while being independent of the matrix switch, but that will add a lot in terms of size and cost, but make programming simpler.

Just a note that the actual advanced loop chart on the editor will not update when you engage or bypass loops. We might add another view of the connections to show the engage/bypassed loops in the editor.

I installed the beta (REV A) but had to return to FW 1.1.2. I use my ML10x in 4 cable method and with this beta the drive channel on my amp was totally clean. With 1.1.2 everything is working again.

Can you share a screenshot of how you have the connection set up in the ML10X? I’ll try to replicate and check.

Hy James, here it is.

Guitar to Input Tip
Amp FX Send to Input Ring
Output Tip to Amp Input (front)
Output Ring to Amp FX Return

that looks fine actually. the code for the new feature doesn’t affect simple mode. what i suspect is that the experimental input split feature was enabled, which splits the input tip into both tip and ring signal path. You can disable it in the controller settings. More info here: Issue routing Input Ring signal in Simple Mode | Morningstar Engineering Helpdesk

Tried to change the Input Split setting and the problem persists. It is always set to “Input Ring”. If I select the “Input Tip”, exit to Global Settings menu and then select the “Set Input Split” from the global settings again it is already set to “Input Ring” (I suppose it should be set to “Input Tip” I previously selected before, right?). Back to 1.1.2.

@james Update: I did a factory reset and now it is working.

I am using MC6Pro and ML10X,

Can I toggle a device/loop in advanced some, say I want to toggle “Off” a pedal but retain all the other pedals in the chain will toggle work.

I just wanted to report than everything is working great for me with this update. I able to do everything that I have ever wanted to do with the combination of the MC6Pro/ML10X. Thank you so much for this update!

One quick question. This may not be possible.
It seems that spillover doesn’t work when bypassing a pedal in advance mode. Any way I can accomplish this? Thank you!

Spillover for Advanced presets has to be set up differently and will only work when switching between presets. We explain that here:

Thanks for the update, glad to know that it works for you!

Currently, not yet. But perhaps we can add a setting somewhere to let a single selected loop spillover when it is bypassed in advanced mode.

Yes you can. In the ML10X message type, you can use the Toggle Selected Loops setting and it will work in this ML10X beta firmware.

Thanks for this @james. I missed this Beta somehow. I haven’t updated yet but it’s very interesting.

In the last scenario, is there or could there be volume loss where the output of Tip A is bypassed or is that only when the signals are summed?

In the last scenario, the signals are “averaged” as they are connected to the same point in the Output. The signals are only summed if they are connected to both points on the output.

Do i need to update my MC6Pro for it to show the CC options? The option to engage/disengage advanced mode is not in the midi library. I can see everything for simple mode but nothing for the new update.

I do have the ML10X updated to the current version.