1 NoteOn converted in 4 Control changes

Hello to all,

I send Note On messages from a BeatBuddy to the MC8.
These messages are converted into Control Change in the MC8 converter to control a looper (Infinity 3.)
All this works very well except that each Note On message is converted into 4 copies of control change (see screenshot) which makes the looper work in overdub and not in simple playback. This is annoying…
I am sure that on the BeatBuddy sequence, only one Note On message is written.
Could someone help me understand what is going on.
Thanks for reading.

Stef

Just tested, can confirm it does not send 4 times.

What firmware version is your MC8 running? Can you share your controller “All banks” data file? I can load it into my controller to try to replicate.

Good evening James,

Thank you for your answer and especially for your time.

I also experimented on my side…
When I read your answer, I thought it was the BeatBuddy that was giving me a hard time.
So I recorded its midi output directly into logic to see what came out. There is only one midi note output at a time (…the CC 35 is what is generated by the MC8 sequencer to send a MTC to the iPad which drives an XR18…)

Then I made the MC8 read this sequence, and there, surprise!.. It displays 2 events of midi notes converted into CC. And not 4 as with the BeatBuddy connected on the MC8.
Well… 2 is still 1 too many…

To tell the truth, I don’t really know what to think about it…

It smells like a midi loop but I didn’t activate the thru on the MC8.

I use version 3.11.0 on the MC8
I’m sending you the json file and the sequence that I saved in logic.

Thanks a lot for your help, James.

Stef

Morningstar_MC8_All_Banks_Backup_20230109_174635.json (1 MB)

(Attachment Test BB out.mid is missing)

James, I hope you received my mail.
The server doesn’t want MIDI files

Stef

Morningstar_MC8_All_Banks_Backup_20230109_174635.json (1 MB)

Just loaded your file into my MC8 to test. I sent a Note 126 and 127 message on channel 3 and I’m getting 1 CC message per note message which is correct. My MC8 is also running v3.11.0.

Can you provide some details on how you have everything connected midi-wise?

Hello James,

Thank you very much for taking the time to do this test.

Well… I’m embarrassed because while making a diagram to explain my midi wiring, I realized the mistake and your time could have been saved.
So as you can see on this diagram, there is indeed a midi loop caused by the red cable.
It is however essential to me because the tempo informations arrives to the MC8 by there.

The only solution I see, but you may have another one, is that the MC8 can filter the midi notes infos for midi out.
It doesn’t seem possible for the moment.
Unless in a next update…? Who knows…

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help, James. The MC8 is really a great product that deserves its success.

Stef

Hello,
I think I drowned in my reflection and my explanations…
In fact, I’m just now realizing that the midi note sent by the BeatBuddy doesn’t exist anymore once it’s been converted to a Control Change by the MC8.
There is a physical loop in my wiring but nothing is set in the MC8 to take into account these Control Changes at its input (of course Thru and Cross Thru are disabled.)
So there is no reason for the MC8 to do the midi note ->Control Change conversion four times instead of one.
Am I wrong?
Regards
Stef

yeah if there is a midi loop then it’ll just keep running instead of stopped at 4. If the MIDI thru setting is enabled then the note message will be passed through as well.

try disconnecting the WIDIHost and MIDI Thru box (connect the BB directly to the MC8). does it make any difference in the MIDI Monitor?

Good evening James,

Here is the result of my experimentations :

(Sorry about the time for the answer, i was very busy with gigs )

Midi out of BeatBuddy go directly to midi in MC8. Nothing else is connected.
BeatBuddy send Note on 127 and 126
Result : 4 x CC 127 and 4 x CC 126

Midi out of a simple keyboard go directly to midi in MC8. Nothing else is connected.
MC8 is set to convert Note on 60 to CC 10
I play a C (midi note 60) - MC8 recognize a Note on.
Result : 1 CC
I release the key - MC8 recognize a Note on !!!
Result : Another CC (same one)

Midi out of a simple keyboard go directly to midi in MC8. Nothing else is connected.
MC8 is set to convert Note off 60 to CC 10
I play a C (midi note 60) - Nothing is recognized in MC8
Result : Nothing
I release the key -Nothing is recognized in MC8 !!!
Result : Nothing

So it appears that MC8 recognizes Notes off as Notes on.
This explains for 2 times, but not 4.

Midi out of BeatBuddy go directly to LogicPro (via midi interface)
I play the sequence from BeatBuddy and Logic records it.
Result : Logic write 1 note on

I play the sequence recorded in LogiPro to MC8 (via midi interface)
Result : MC8 convert then sends 2 x CC

Result of the Results : I don’t anderstand anything and i’m going crazy.

Thanks for your help James
Stef

Are you able to determine what velocity the BB is sending the Note On at?

You can try this attached custom firmware which will pass the incoming MIDI messages out to USB so you can monitor what messages the MC8 is receiving, and then what messages it is being converted to.
i.e. if you send a Note On message to the MIDI Input, it will pass that Note On message out via USB and then convert the Note On message. Turn on Cross MIDI Thru so it will send the converted message out via USB as well.

Let me know what you see in the MIDI Monitor?
2023-01-24_MC8_Firmware_v_3_11_0_Test_Midi_Thru.hex (613.2 KB)

Hi James
Thank you very much for sending me this firmware test. It allows us to understand some very interesting things.

Firstly:
In some cases, the BeatBuddy sends 3 notes off after each note on. Crazy, right?
This is the case on all the sequences I produce as I have been doing for 30 years. Each note on event triggers a sample that plays until its end no matter how long the midi event is. Except for the hi-hats for example, where the playback of the open hi-hat has to be interrupted.
This is clearly a Singular Sound bug and they don’t seem to communicate about it.

How do they get around this?
By extending the notes to the end of the pattern each time it is used the first time (I didn’t understand why they do this on the sequences they provide until now…)
In this case: 1 note off for 1 note on and it works fine.

Secondly:
It turns out that the MC8 believes that notes off are notes on.
This is what I detected when using a midi keyboard instead of the BeatBuddy.
I don’t ask the “MIDI Messages Converter” to take the off notes into account at all. Only notes on.
So, in my case, since it gets 1 note on and 3 notes off from the BB, it converts to 4 identical CCs. The count is good…

My conclusion:
Yes, it turns out that there is a problem with note off generation at Singular Sound.
But the MC8 should not convert events if I don’t declare them in the converter.

Thanks a lot, James, to see if you can fix this.
And especially thanks for all your time.

Stef





Thanks for the info. At least I know where to look at now - found a bug where incoming Note Off messages were being handled as Note On messages.

Can you try this attached firmware and see if it resolves your issue?
2023-01-24_MC8_Firmware_v_3_11_0_MIDI_Note_Off_Handle_Bug_Fix.hex (613.5 KB)

James, its working perfect !!! Yes!!!
Thank u very very much for your reactivity.

Can i keep this firmware all the time to replace the standard one ?
Or there are other modifications i have not seen ?

Thanks again James